Toshiba's first three 1080p DLP rear projection TVs

Toshiba also announed their first three 1080p DLP rear projection TVs today, the 56-inch 56HM195, the 62-inch 62HM195, and the 72-inch (you guessed it) 72HM195. All three are CableCARD ready, and have a built-in memory card reader for looking at digital photos, dual HDMI ports, and a FireWire port if you want to attach one of Toshiba's optional 160GB Symbio HD Recorders. Both the 56HM195 and the 62HM195 should be out by August, with the 72HM195 to follow a month later. (Can't find any pics at the moment, but they'll turn up sooner or later.)

[AcrylicGuitar @ Dec 19th 2005 12:16AM]

Any idea on price?

[Morgon @ Dec 19th 2005 12:16AM]

One thing I've always been curious about, but never bothered to ask:

What advantages does Rear Projection have over, say, LCD? Is there a better image quality with RP ? Artifacting with LCD?

Are there any online resources that -fully- compare these technologies in-depth?

[Cullen @ Dec 19th 2005 12:16AM]

2 hdmi in ports? i dont know anything about this technology, but how about out? maybe im just a stupid computer user, but i think itd be a good idea to have hdmi/dvi/something out, so as to record onto things. again, i could easily be completely off and there could be a better way, but what are the benefits over dvi or something? is there a reason why hdmi is used on tvs and shit but not computers?
i still want a crt projector :p

[ruben @ Dec 19th 2005 12:16AM]

hmmm good tv's now i own 2 hdtv's i will probably buy one of these in the living room to go with my ps3. :)
for prices go to this site they r towards the bottom of the page http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/05-19-2005/0003639403&EDATE=

[Brian @ Dec 19th 2005 12:16AM]

Morgan,

Rear projection televisions can be broken down into several categories based upon what is used to generate the image. This can be done using LCD technology, CRT technology, or in this case, DLP technology. These small images are then magnified and "projected" onto the screen.

LCDs aren't widely available in 1080p (they may not even be available in that resolution). They are also quite expensive as LCD screen sizes increase. Few factories are capable of producing the glass substrates large enough for these screen sizes. That's why you don't see many very large LCD screens. Most larger sizes are either projection sets or plasma sets.

Burn in isn't an issue for LCD monitors. In terms of brightness and contrast ratio, DLP currently trumps LCDs, although LCDs do consumer less power than DLP sets.

What it really comes down to is that LCDs are thinner (wall mountable), lighter, and more stylish. That (in my opinion) is why they're talked about so much. DLP sets are going to be bigger (although narrower and lighter than traditonal CRT projection sets), but generally produce a better, brighter image.

Hope this helped. You can always check out www.howstuffworks.com.

[Micah Wylde @ Dec 19th 2005 12:16AM]

#2: Mainly they're just much much cheaper.

[cello @ Dec 19th 2005 12:16AM]

I didn't realize 1080p was even possible. I always thought 1080i was the upper limit ... I guess this is true HIGH Def.

Man, MS *has to* beef up the xbox360 output to 1080p if they wanna be all "Hi-Def" about it.

[Morgon @ Dec 19th 2005 12:16AM]

Awesome, thanks for the clarification.

Pricewise, the link Ruben gave puts the 56" at $3500, the 62" at $3800, and the 72" at a cool $5K.

Weird that a 6 inch difference is $300, but a 10 inch one is 1200. 62" seems like the way to go! If I still have money once I buy my house, one of these will probably make its way in there. (Assuming there are houses for friggin SALE, which there barely are around here (uh.. offtopic rant, sorry))

[Lars @ Dec 19th 2005 12:16AM]

With all this talk about the next-gen consoles supporting HD, what is a cheaper, maybe 20-24" HDTV I could buy? Is it a bad idea now to get a 720p TV? Is this resolution going to be "out-of-date" and not look as good in a few years or something?

[Matt @ Dec 19th 2005 12:16AM]

If I use one of these TVs for playing video games, will I have to worry about the image burning in?

[Pacey @ Dec 19th 2005 12:16AM]

Morgon, come to Michigan, they can't sell them here at all.

[Jazzay @ Dec 19th 2005 12:16AM]

if u take care of the TV itll take care of you :) Rear projection i think have no burn-in affect, could be wrong tho

in a couple years 720p will look just the same, but 1600p will look all the better :)

[Brian @ Dec 19th 2005 12:16AM]

I don't think 720p will be outdated anytime soon. While the FCC is requiring networks to broadcast in digital, most are not doing so in 1080 but rather 720p. I remember last football season Fox was advertising their games as being broadcast in the "world's finest HD standard," which to them was 720p, not the higher detailed 1080i or 1080p. I think it's safe to say 720 will be the defacto standard in the short term while 1080 will presumably become more dominant in the long run. 1080 sets are also more expensive and the majority of HD sets sold are in 780.

[keilo @ Dec 19th 2005 12:16AM]

"I'll bet 2006 is the year of the high-def dragon or the the gate to high-def is open then of course there is there is this little piece of trivia that is even more tantalizing, mesmerizing, and engulfing;welcome the museum of everything before high-def that hit but mostly missed!" high-def the entertainment evolution.

[Andy @ Dec 19th 2005 12:16AM]

I think that it should be pointed out that 1080p is not supported by the American HDTV standards, only 480p, 720p, and 1080i are. The real benefit this TV will have is that it will be able to play 1080i content without downconverting it to 720p or 480p as current DLPs do.

[Jeff @ Dec 19th 2005 12:16AM]

"LCDs aren't widely available in 1080p (they may not even be available in that resolution)."

Well, maybe not that exact resolution (I'd find that difficult to believe, though), but quite a few have resolution that's actually *higher* than 1080p. Maybe you're thinking of plasma? The Apple 30" Cinema Display, just for one example, has a native res of 2560x1600, far higher than 1080p's 1920x1080. (And yes, it is of course progressive - it's an LCD!)

A lot of LCD's have resolutions of 1920x1200. These are 16:10 screens so you either have to letterbox pretty much all the time or you have to stretch, which is annoying, yes. This is one of the failings of LCD - even so-called LCD "televisions" are still based on computer-oriented panels, so the resolutions and aspect ratios are never exactly right. But that doesn't mean you can't do 1:1 mapping, you just have to deal with letterboxing.

But there are still environments where LCD screens are probably the best HDTV choice. They're great for HTPC's, for one thing, where you're using the screen both for TV and games, as well as even the occasional PC application. They display the sharpest text of any HDTV technology and also have better color accuracy out of the box than any other technology (yes, even CRT!). Most HDTV's are way off in color accuracy out of the box and require professional calibration to correct it - this has been true of TV's since even before HDTV, as manufacturers configure them to look best on a showroom floor rather than in a home. It's not a problem with an LCD, though, which when connected via DVI to an HTPC with an HDTV tuner, will display colors as close to exactly as intended as it's ever going to be able to, without any calibration at all.

The big negative about LCD is a too-high black level, which means poor contrast. Watching movies or TV with a lot of night scenes *can* be annoying because black is never really black, although some panels come really close and a lot of people wouldn't notice the difference.

There are also LCD RPTV's, though I don't know if any support 1080p. There's no real reason why they wouldn't, though, except that 1080p is just now getting popular among manufacturers and LCD RPTV's have sort of fallen out of favor. So there may just not be too many models on offer because of that. LCD RPTV's are kind of a bastard child; most people think of them as having the worst of both LCD technology and inherent RPTV limitations without realizing they also have the best of both worlds too. The point is they're not mutually-exclusive things, though - LCD is a display technology, rear projection is more of a form factor. (I wouldn't really call "projection" a "technology" at this point, as it's technically been around for more than 100 years.)

There are really too many different RPTV technologies to get into; they all have their pluses and minuses. Then you've got plasma, LCD and CRT, which are the main direct-view technologies (there are also CRT RPTV's, just to confuse things even further). Again, all with pros and cons of their own. There's really no "best" technology, although DLP seems to be most "en vogue" right now. (I'm not a big fan of DLP sets - the viewing angles are way too restrictive.)

[Monmin @ Dec 19th 2005 12:16AM]

Great informative post Jeff (#15).

My 2 cents is that I wouldn't necessarly buy a HDTV just yet. With the next gen consoles coming I think we might see some great deals coming our way in the next 6 months. I'm hoping for some really sweet cross promotional deals - like maybe buy a DLP and get a free xbox 360. I don't know, maybe I'm dreaming, but the consoles are going to generate hdtv sales and the manufactures are going to compete for your dollar thats for sure!

[kevin @ Dec 19th 2005 12:16AM]

1080p? the perfect companion for the PS3

[Rich @ Dec 19th 2005 12:16AM]

I strongly disagree with:

"LCDs aren't widely available in 1080p"

I've been shopping for an HDTV on and off for over a year now, and one thing I've definitely noticed is that if you want full 1080 resolution in a flat panel, LCD is the only game in town. Just open a Crutchfield catalog from *a year ago* and you'll see both Samsung and Sharp offering 1080p LCD TVs for $8000. (They go for $5000-$6000 from discounters.)

1080i CRT units (tube and projection) have been widely available, but they're just huge and heavy - not my cup of tea.

In plasma, I don't think anything with 1080 (i or p) is available yet (except myabe an insanely-priced Qualia or something - not sure).

DLPs are just now getting 1080 resolution with this new generation, and it's a *huge* deal for HDTV lovers, because they are vastly cheaper than LCD panels.

$2000 less, yet 10 inches larger diagonal? Sold. I don't care if it's thicker - they still use crazy mirrors to make it a full 50% thinner than a CRT tube - thin enough for me. And better image quality!

I am so getting a new 1080p DLP TV! :-D

[Monmin @ Dec 19th 2005 12:16AM]

Word of warning: Just because the tv displays 1080p does not mean it accepts a 1080p input. In fact, as far as I know, no tv will accept a 1080p input. The 1080p displays will take 1080i and de-interlace it to 1080p.

Hopefully by the time the PS3 comes to market a TV will exist that can take the PS3s 1080p output. Today it just doesn't exist.

[John @ Dec 19th 2005 12:16AM]

I've been looking for awhile too. 1080p DLP sounds like a good entry point for me. I don't know about a 1080p TV not accepting that input, but I think it's going to be a good long term plateau in resolution. I agree there are not any broadcast sources for 1080p, and probably won't be for some time, but ESPN is looking at the possibility. We also don't know about Bluray or HD-DVD, but I expect that the movie studios will feel pressure to provide a resolution slightly better than broadcast so they can better sell disk media. I expect those to be 1080p. Some worried that they would be giving away the farm at those resolutions but it looks like new digital theatre standards will range from 2,000 to 4,000 lines. That should keep them selling tickets for the full theatre experience. The last straw for me was the PS3 announcement. I think that sets the standard. I can't imagine why the Xbox 360 won't support 1080p or HD disks. They may be the first out of the gate, but if users want HD players Sony can justify charging more because Xbox 360 customers will need to buy another box. I looked at Sharp's 45" 1080p LCD panel, but high speed pans for sports seemed to blur, so it's not fast enough, not to mention costs $7,000. I also don't think I'll be able to wait for that new flat panel, some organic light something... It might get it right in a couple years.

[Loraan @ Dec 19th 2005 12:16AM]

#18: There was a thread on this over on avsforum.com, and the conclusion was that there were a few devices out there capable of both taking a 1080p input and outputting it as 1080p. I remember that somebody claimed that the G90 projector could do it, and I believe that Sony's Qualia front projector is planned to get an optional upgrade that will allow it to do it.

One has to wonder just how much benefit there really is in going from 1080i input->deinterlace->1080p display to true 1080p input->1080p display. At 480, deinterlacing artifacts are obvious, but I'm thinking that if you more than double the horizontal resolution, the difference will be minimal.

[dweebe @ Dec 19th 2005 12:16AM]

Andy/#14:
1080p is not supported as an over the air broadcast HDTV format. I believe it is a bandwidth issue. However it is a "legal" format doesn't mean it can't be used by cable/satellite channels, video games and HD-DVD/Blu-Ray discs.

I thought I read recently a statement that the NFL is thinking about 1080p as the standard for their Sunday Ticket and NFL Channel Broadcasts.

[John @ Dec 19th 2005 12:16AM]

"I think that it should be pointed out that 1080p is not supported by the American HDTV standards, only 480p, 720p, and 1080i are."

I believe you are mistaken. Please review:

http://www.atsc.org/standards/a_53c_amend-1_corr-1.pdf

Look at the table on page 31. 1080p is allowed with frame rates up to 30hz.

[D @ Dec 19th 2005 12:16AM]

Also, the first 1080p chips don't actually have 1080 lines of mirrors, they're using one mirror to light 2 pixels, essentially reducing back to interlaced.

[rp @ Dec 19th 2005 12:16AM]

I just want the one that gives me the best HD sports veiwing. Does the 1080p have rainbowing on HD football.

[Jerry Klein @ Dec 19th 2005 12:16AM]

I just purchased the Toshiba 56HM195 - 1080P DLP. You will find this set is (at least in my opinion) and after a great deal of research...the best in its class. Uses the newer TI HD4 chip (the HD3 was a bust)Toshiba seems to have done it right and even though there are no 1080p broadcasts the resolution is better than a 1080i set. NO rainbow!